tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post5715908603684740603..comments2024-03-29T07:35:51.362+00:00Comments on Fabled Lands: Start by forgettingDave Morrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-52368818556184049192017-10-09T20:34:55.035+01:002017-10-09T20:34:55.035+01:00Ooh... there's a Voodoo sourcebook? That might...Ooh... there's a Voodoo sourcebook? That might be my Christmas present to myself.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-61235088773325024492017-10-09T19:43:11.742+01:002017-10-09T19:43:11.742+01:00The GURPS sourcebooks are great. I probably learn...The GURPS sourcebooks are great. I probably learned more about Voodoo from that sourcebook than from any other source. As for your system search, I've just sent you something that might help.johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-37272736687003320252017-10-09T19:16:52.309+01:002017-10-09T19:16:52.309+01:00Actually, after pondering your earlier comment I t...Actually, after pondering your earlier comment I thought that maybe it is time I kicked GURPS to the kerb. I can appreciate the work that's gone into 4e, but the problem is that it leads to freakishly over-designed characters, glacially slow fights, tedious wrangling over rules, and I'm not even sure that the meticulous points system pays for itself. Half the time players conveniently forget the forest of disadvantages that are supposed to affect them, and even with Excel nobody seems capable of accurately totting up their CPs.<br /><br />So you know what, Richard, you're right. I'm got going to bother with GURPS anymore. Except for those sourcebooks, obviously. The one you're talking about is GURPS Mysteries, I think. Well worth a look:<br /><br />http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/mysteries/Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-54720834770138495062017-10-09T18:49:53.118+01:002017-10-09T18:49:53.118+01:00Understood!
Never been a GURPS (system) fan but s...Understood!<br /><br />Never been a GURPS (system) fan but some of their sourcebooks are outstanding. The one which immediately springs to mind is the crime and investigations book (forgotten what it's exact name is) but its chock full of great advice.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14818401633834690357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-51723469291826048232017-10-08T13:44:02.107+01:002017-10-08T13:44:02.107+01:00For the record, my house rules to fix GURPS 4e are...For the record, my house rules to fix GURPS 4e are:<br /><br />* The only rulebooks that apply are Characters and Campaigns.<br />* There are no points for mental disadvantages.<br />* No exotic powers are allowed.<br />* You get no points for Quirks.<br />* You can take only one disadvantage.<br />* Advantages are capped at 25% of starting character points.<br />* No roll (Will, Fright, etc) can ever tell a player how his/her character should behave unless they are under mental control of some sort.Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-13594636394761262632017-10-08T12:21:47.715+01:002017-10-08T12:21:47.715+01:00I can't speak for Oliver, but I find some adva...I can't speak for Oliver, but I find some advantages to using GURPS. There's plenty of detail for almost any setting, and the core 4e rules are well designed. You just need to exclude the mental disadvantages (all silly) and restrict the rules to just the core 4e books, ie Characters and Campaigns. All the other rulebooks like Perks, Martial Arts, Tactical Shooting, etc, just introduce a hair-pullingly insane number of special cases, all underpriced to delight powergamers. But use only the core of 4e and you've got a good system. Not as good as Tirikelu, mind you :-)DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-69419432764070369802017-10-08T11:53:28.884+01:002017-10-08T11:53:28.884+01:00Quote: "The more I sit here reading through t...Quote: "The more I sit here reading through the rules, the more I'm convinced that GURPS is the enemy of roleplaying"<br /><br />Why bother with GURPS then? There are countless systems out there that could give you more of what you want, surely?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14818401633834690357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-6388848922461239242017-10-07T22:48:28.579+01:002017-10-07T22:48:28.579+01:00What you're describing is a completely differe...What you're describing is a completely different approach from what I proposed in the post. But you could do it that way too.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-88010988098907135382017-10-07T22:33:09.315+01:002017-10-07T22:33:09.315+01:00GURPS is 3d6, right? So for your amnesiac charact...GURPS is 3d6, right? So for your amnesiac characters, let's say they each have a potential slate of 16 skills. At the top end they're rated at 16, 14 and 13. At the bottom end they're 8, 6 and 5. Between them there's 5 skills rated at 11 and five at 10. So one of the characters wants to sneak past some people which is presumably Stealth. First he rolls 3d6 and gets a 16, so his Stealth is set at 13 and that number gets crossed off the list of possibles. If he'd initially rolled a 4, his Stealth would've been a much crappier 6.johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-52284921030470526722017-10-07T21:32:45.713+01:002017-10-07T21:32:45.713+01:00Still not going to work in a campaign where you st...Still not going to work in a campaign where you start with no memory, though. The point is not to know what you're good at. You have to not mind being surprised, and to enjoy improv -- otherwise, yes, you're always going to have to author those characters.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-67264293004244608732017-10-07T20:51:32.027+01:002017-10-07T20:51:32.027+01:00Interesting outliers. That's one reason I rea...Interesting outliers. That's one reason I really don't like random rolls for abilities in RPGs. I get it. In real life there are some people who are rich, handsome strong and smart while there are other who are poor, ugly, weak and dumb as a sack of hair.<br /><br />Dungeon World is a "powered-by-the-Apocalypse" system that emulates AD&D without all the chart nonsense. You pick your stats of Dex, Str, Con, Int, Wis and Cha from a set of the following number 16 (+2 modifier) two 13s (+1 modifier) 11 (no modifier) 9 (no modifier) and 8 (-1 modifier). Figure something like that would work for GURPS. Pick a few high values, a few low values and most of the rest should be 10s and 11s. Maybe make the values randomly placed at the time the skills are rolled.johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-89721283370065723002017-10-07T14:43:16.689+01:002017-10-07T14:43:16.689+01:00You will obviously need to agree a system for gene...You will obviously need to agree a system for generating brevet values after the first. For example, the players could have a list of pregenerated values and look down until they come to the next valid value. If you use 3d you will end up with skills fairly closely clustered around 10.5 (more tightly than for a 3d bell curve, I haven't time to do the maths) but given the number of skills in GURPS I'd expect to see some interesting outliers.Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-78088480643659087472017-10-07T14:19:53.845+01:002017-10-07T14:19:53.845+01:00Having now played the first session of the campaig...Having now played the first session of the campaign that kicked off this post, I can report that the first thing that happened was each player got handed a darned tarot card. The tarot is now joining "dark Alice in Wonderland" comics/games as the trope whose overuse most irritates me.<br /><br />And yet the irritation also contains an element of amusement, or possibly hysteria. Years ago I was told the story of a Balliol don who was in a state of nervous exhaustion. "You have to get right away from these academic pressures," said his doctor; "I'm sending you for a month's rest in the Cyclades. Take nothing that will remind you of work."<br /><br />So the chap went off and lazed about on sparkling white beaches drinking retsina. One day he decided to take a stroll along the beach and he noticed a fence in the bushes. He followed the fence for a mile along the shore until he saw a gate with a notice on it. He went closer and saw that it read: "Keep out. Property of Balliol College."Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-15545889256302176742017-10-06T22:18:37.070+01:002017-10-06T22:18:37.070+01:00What are the limits of the brevet system in terms ...What are the limits of the brevet system in terms of skills acquired? It seems like a lucky character could be "Hello, I'm Steve. I'm a computer hacker brain surgeon who flies space shuttles and summons demons in his spare time, what about you?" "Oh, I'm Bob. I can skip rope without tripping myself. Sometimes."johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-28545106791468171552017-10-06T12:50:00.425+01:002017-10-06T12:50:00.425+01:00This differs from, say, Alas Vegas where another p...This differs from, say, Alas Vegas where another player will give you a scene and you take a skill from that. Eg: "A flashback where you see yourself clinging to a cliffside as a car bursts into flame in the canyon below" - from which you might claim to have Escape or Climb or Acrobatics or whatever.<br /><br />The justification of using that in a one-shot narrativist game is that it's how action movies have traditionally shown a character's abilities (or indeed weaknesses). It's called "setting up", the scene that's there to tell the audience that the One Ring is a megaton of trouble, or that Indy doesn't like snakes.<br /><br />But you wouldn't want to do it that way in an ongoing RPG campaign because we know that skills aren't actually acquired in one scene. So it's a way of communicating to the audience, but it doesn't deal with the character from the inside. But no need here to get back on that tack about RPGs trying to be like movies, as we covered it in a very recent post.Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-12077670412517976582017-10-06T12:43:22.593+01:002017-10-06T12:43:22.593+01:00The SH Kickstarter is now over, but in case the bo...The SH Kickstarter is now over, but in case the book goes on sale it's worth recapping what I said in the post:<br /><br />"Where Fabled Lands leaves you to define your own character and goals (a degree of absolute freeform that many find too daunting), Steam Highwayman is more like a structured roleplaying campaign in which you are given a pre-defined role. You're not just presented with a world and told, "Go." You're a figure in that world and your choices fill in the character background. Kind of like being given Robin Hood to play, but whether he's a peasant or a dispossessed Saxon nobleman is left up to you. "<br />Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-46654091773583173892017-10-06T08:40:42.599+01:002017-10-06T08:40:42.599+01:00Getting back to the subject of the post, the breve...Getting back to the subject of the post, the brevet system can be tweaked if you want more powerful or more customisable characters. You could roll brevet skills on 4d, for instance. Or you could give a bonus to brevet levels for classes of skills for which the character feels he/she has an affinity, or if the player comes up with a particularly impressive description of how the skill is being used.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-54512096221994675792017-10-06T08:36:44.676+01:002017-10-06T08:36:44.676+01:00As I said in the recent post about Steam Highwayma...As I said in the recent post about Steam Highwayman, what interested me was that you are given a role but you're free to choose the characterisation.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-14918378568526304412017-10-06T03:23:03.312+01:002017-10-06T03:23:03.312+01:00You've actually got a continuum on the open/cl...You've actually got a continuum on the open/closed bit. Both the world and the character can be open or closed. A closed character is exemplified by Joe Dever's works. "You are Lone Wolf, last of the Kai Lords. You think the Darklords suck, and here's the latest job you have to do." Fighting Fantasy (and something like The Keep of the Lich Lord) has open characters and a closed world. Whether your see (or build) your character as a cunning thief, tough Warrior, etc, your job is to kick the snot out of the Warlock of Firetop Mountain or whatever in a closed world. You can't just blow the quest off for a bit to head over to Dweomer (unless that's somehow part of the adventure). Fabled Lands is clearly open character, open world. You can plat whatever you want and have (or her) attempt to do whatever you choose.<br /><br />Steam Highwayman is the closest I've seen to closed (or at least semi-closed) character, open world. There's a world to explore, but you're going to explore that world as some kind of vehicle-riding person who robs people on the roads AKA a Steam Highwayman (or possibly Steam Highwaywoman). You get one of two sets of stats, items, backstories and general goals assigned to you and you go from there. At that point what you do, how you do it and where you choose to go next is up to you.johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-8239955248055252832017-10-06T01:13:28.481+01:002017-10-06T01:13:28.481+01:00The way Mike Cule has described that on his Improv...The way Mike Cule has described that on his Improvised Radio Theater podcast is "you are an X who does Y". Even that to my mind is a straitjacket to characterisation. My character in Oliver's game tonight is a gambler -- maybe. But as for the Y? I've no idea. Not every character has to have a goal in life. In a movie, yes; in life and roleplaying, no.<br /><br />I haven't read much of Steam Highwayman but I got the impression that it does impose a role on your character. In a gamebook that's fair enough. There's no referee to respond to the million choices you might make, so the gamebook author must try to restrict those choices to a smaller set he or she can anticipate. Steam Highwayman differs from Fabled Lands in the degree of freedom, and fair enough. Martin is trying to focus on a specific story, or group of stories. As you say, it's somewhere between FL's open world and Fighting Fantasy's "here is your quest".DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-40199804430440632982017-10-06T00:32:11.100+01:002017-10-06T00:32:11.100+01:00For my part, I prefer to sketch our of character h...For my part, I prefer to sketch our of character history/personality at a fairly basic level and fill in details as I play. I don't really want to play an amnesiac, but I certainly don't want to have to build my character's history from just-formed zygote to that afternoon.<br /><br />The question of identity has been raised for me by the demo for Steam Highwayman, which uses a modified version of the Fabled Lands games system. It was weird for me to find that system powering a game-book whose themes are somewhat opposite that of the books that birthed it.<br /><br />The viewpoint character in Fabled Lands is a fairly general purpose "adventurer" whose main "goals" are mostly "seek adventure" and "gain wealth, personal prowess, influence, etc in order to seek even more adventure." There is, however, no real pressure to have the character accomplish any specific goals other than those of his own choosing. "Become wealthy enough to have ships in every port and townhouses in every city" is just as reasonable a goal as that for pursuing any of the in-book quest-lines. There's no push for the character to be a hero and no punishment for the character becoming something of a villain. There are consequences for actions in the Fabled Lands, but no real judgements.<br /><br />Things seem quite different in Steam Highwayman. The character is clearly supposed to be a hero and a fairly specific type of hero (Zorro, Robin Hood, etc.) at that. Choices of the book's/demo's beginning define your character's background and initial statistics, belongings and at least a general goal for the character to pursue.<br /><br />It's a work that seem to go between the casual Fabled Lands attitude of "here's the world, go make your mark on it if you can" and other gamebooks' idea of "You are Noun. You must save the people of Noun from the terrible evil of Noun."johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-31487749756658046222017-10-05T13:32:20.949+01:002017-10-05T13:32:20.949+01:00If somebody wants to run a campaign on rails, they...If somebody wants to run a campaign on rails, they really need to tell the players up front what kinds of characters are going to work in it - otherwise that's going to happen a lot. So I'm surprised he/she didn't give you a steer there.<br /><br />Of course, amnesia is an interesting set-up once in a while. It'd wear thin pretty quickly, especially when (as so often) it turns into "you're all dead and you didn't know it".<br /><br />A halfway house is to run through the character's early life picking up skills as you go. That ensures you end up with a character who fits the setting, but instead of designing the character cold you get to play through those important early life-choices. That's how Tirikelu (see the previous post) does it.Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-73564598691577963392017-10-05T13:19:22.369+01:002017-10-05T13:19:22.369+01:00I really like the idea of "remembering who yo...I really like the idea of "remembering who your character is"in the course of play... would have saved a lot of anguish, all those times I constructed a really detailed character whose mind- and ability-sets proved to be almost completely incompatible with the actual game the GM had in mind.Who+https://www.blogger.com/profile/17614182093392017208noreply@blogger.com