tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post6316459437491981231..comments2024-03-27T21:18:33.034+00:00Comments on Fabled Lands: Guns in spaceDave Morrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-10613073246184977552017-08-30T15:36:49.558+01:002017-08-30T15:36:49.558+01:00But don't replicators use the same principle a...But don't replicators use the same principle as the transporter? So now I'm *really* worried :-)Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-62252806663600982422017-08-29T17:47:12.170+01:002017-08-29T17:47:12.170+01:00Oops, premature post. Re Nukes, our feeble 20th Ce...Oops, premature post. Re Nukes, our feeble 20th Century nukes are mostly no match for Star Fleet shield technology. They'd either shoot them down at long range with Phasers anyway, or just take the hit and shrug it off. Hence small craft having no chance. IMHO capital ship grade phasers and photon torpedoes are planetary civilisation-destroying weapons. A single photon torpedo is a Tsar Bomba plus scale weapon and Phasers would blowtorch through rock and concrete like it's polystyrene. But sure, the shows are terribly inconsistent in how they are portrayed.Simon Hibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997328692622628629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-82437666049293403592017-08-29T17:37:23.516+01:002017-08-29T17:37:23.516+01:00TOS had replicators, but it also established that ...TOS had replicators, but it also established that there were whole colony worlds dedicated to growing wheat. If I were running a game, and I might well do as the new Modiphius game looks really good, I'd say that replicators need feedstock materials and to make food they need edible biomass. The more edible and close to real food the more efficient the process. I know that's not canon, but if youre running your own game you get to create your own canon.<br /><br />As for small ships vs big ones with shields, bows and arrows against the lightning. What's the point of a weapon that does 2D6 damage when your target has 100 points of armour and there are no shields-bypassing critical hits? Yes later series introduced effective small craft and yes that was a stupid mistake.Simon Hibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997328692622628629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-56907023054244417212017-08-25T12:13:14.868+01:002017-08-25T12:13:14.868+01:00All solid comments, but all miss they key point th...All solid comments, but all miss they key point that there is no way that future star ships would even bother to fight, let alone have meat brains controlling their guidance and weapon systems. If you have the energetic budget to travel between stars (http://mkaku.org/home/articles/the-physics-of-interstellar-travel/) and matter replication, there are no resources you need to travel for except script writer mcguffins (and Hollywood has a huge excess of them).<br />At that level of tech, AI driven weapons, cloud ships, replication of materials, and energy budgets would be such that any battle that did occur would be over in a few milliseconds, at ranges that meant that one side could not even see the other with the naked eye. Given the explosion radius of a nuke, any ships that closed within even 25km, let alone 250m as in ST movies, would be instantly vapourised. <br />The whole 'its a fleet battle from the C17th with aircombat from the 1940s' is utterly dumb.<br />And don't get me started on:<br />- starship design<br />- how all ships orient in space with the same "down"<br />- gravity on ships<br />- taking meatbags into spaceDavidBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02981906008478767303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-66404081612283438192017-07-15T17:46:34.646+01:002017-07-15T17:46:34.646+01:00I think Roddenberry's vision is realistic - at...I think Roddenberry's vision is realistic - at least, if humanity has a future, it must be that optimistic future. I feel sorry for those people who think life is a zero-sum game and say that people are fundamentally selfish, because I think they're just describing themselves. Humans when they work together than achieve wonders. To get there we're going to have to shrug off a lot of superstition and tribalism, though. I'm confident that we'll do it, or our successors will. Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-42475062022799295362017-07-14T12:35:28.545+01:002017-07-14T12:35:28.545+01:00And this message of optimism is still fresh even t...And this message of optimism is still fresh even today. Perhaps, especially so, considering everything that's happening in the real world.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09092415430438867104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-35680445405606403662017-07-14T12:33:37.976+01:002017-07-14T12:33:37.976+01:00Those are fair points... And a higher budget (unfo...Those are fair points... And a higher budget (unfortunately) often doesn't get spent on the important things!<br /><br />The one thing I've always loved about Star Trek is its message of optimism. Its refreshing that humanity has established pretty much a utopian society where people contribute to it in positive ways and money no longer has control over society at large. Compared to a lot of other (still great) SF, this came across as deeply original to me when I first heard it mentioned. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09092415430438867104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-17002175795259653642017-07-14T12:23:29.880+01:002017-07-14T12:23:29.880+01:00I used to figure on Next Gen having one or at most...I used to figure on Next Gen having one or at most two really good episodes per season. It may not seem a great hit rate, but one entire season cost a fraction of the budget of Beyond, and I think TNG rarely had utterly stupid plotting, nor was it continually played as broad comedy the way the movies have gone.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-69134122292388459132017-07-13T16:29:46.343+01:002017-07-13T16:29:46.343+01:00The post and comments have been interesting to rea...The post and comments have been interesting to read but it does beg the question, with the exception of a few episodes and films, has Star Trek ever been particularly good or (perhaps more fairly) consistently so?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09092415430438867104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-45626426454432030472017-07-13T08:22:50.320+01:002017-07-13T08:22:50.320+01:00I liked the first one, too, Simon. It had its flaw...I liked the first one, too, Simon. It had its flaws but showed promise -- promise that was immediately squandered. I can't help wondering what the rejected script for Beyond was like. "Too Star Trekky" was one studio exec's comment, allegedly, with Mr Pegg's intention being to make it less SF and more of an action movie. But noise and CGI and dumb jokes are not enough.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-49892795214776637192017-07-13T06:21:35.871+01:002017-07-13T06:21:35.871+01:00The prefix code thin only worked in WoK because Kh...The prefix code thin only worked in WoK because Khan opened a communications channel for them and let them do an upload to his computer system. Doh! So much for the superior intellect. It was just a flimsy excuse in Beyond.<br /><br />I think they were betting that most of the audience would be too busy watching the cool CGI and chomping popcorn to care about the story making any sense. But that's the Reboots for you. I actually still rate the first one though despite the transporting into warp thing being stupid and unnecessary.<br /><br />Simon Hibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03997328692622628629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-43610824114752407122017-07-12T15:08:44.688+01:002017-07-12T15:08:44.688+01:00Roleplaying is a whole other thing, of course, and...Roleplaying is a whole other thing, of course, and arguably not a game at all. A life simulator might be a better description. But even there, you can't expect players to ignore obvious exploits of the system simply because you didn't design the rules to be played that way. I saw one set of RPG rules that kept emphasizing how players were supposed to play it, even though the rules patently did not set up a world in which that would be the likely behaviour. That's the job of a designer. If I want a world in which characters are afraid of magic, I have to build in a reason.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-61885199992988911862017-07-12T13:29:10.743+01:002017-07-12T13:29:10.743+01:00I've never really given too many hoots about w...I've never really given too many hoots about winning or losing, so long as I enjoy the journey of a game to its end, so I'd propose that the only wrong ways to play are the ways in which you don't have fun, but that leads into the debate about the responsibility of a player to ensure the other players are also having fun. And once everyone is under pressure to ensure everyone else is also having fun, is it even fun any more?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062647064149474954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-81383210608973851772017-07-12T13:19:03.818+01:002017-07-12T13:19:03.818+01:00Too many game designers complain about people play...Too many game designers complain about people playing their game wrong. But once you hand people the rules, the only wrong ways to play are the ways that lose.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-11551093020849942572017-07-12T12:43:27.842+01:002017-07-12T12:43:27.842+01:00This reminds me of Doug Lenat, who programmed an A...This reminds me of Doug Lenat, who programmed an AI back in the 1980s to play Traveller as a tabletop game for battling fleets of warships. Accepted strategy at the time was to field large, mobile, and well-armed warships, but Lenat's AI concluded instead that it would be better to field hundreds of smaller, less mobile, and less aggressive craft. This approach ended up easily winning the tournament. Even after a rule-change prevented Lenat's AI repeating this strategy the following year, it still won (and so was banned from future competitions). I can only assume that Lenat's AI algorithms didn't make survive into the 23rd century.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062647064149474954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-11951296956218352852017-07-11T13:49:15.348+01:002017-07-11T13:49:15.348+01:00It's too late for me, Stuart. Save yourself!It's too late for me, Stuart. Save yourself!Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14468228790874490693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-44130141571690731502017-07-11T13:47:25.535+01:002017-07-11T13:47:25.535+01:00Watch out, Dave. TVTropes is like Heroin.Watch out, Dave. TVTropes is like Heroin.Stuart Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15100216520313336932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-39747335349784188412017-07-10T22:30:37.696+01:002017-07-10T22:30:37.696+01:00",,,and that will lead to another trope and T...",,,and that will lead to another trope and That will lead to Another trope..."johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-36774453616976756472017-07-10T09:40:18.836+01:002017-07-10T09:40:18.836+01:00I went over to TV Tropes for a quick look, and one...I went over to TV Tropes for a quick look, and one link led to another... and another... It's the browsing equivalent of steering too close to a black hole.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-40563271249860122682017-07-10T01:42:30.739+01:002017-07-10T01:42:30.739+01:00I don't know that they'd need to redesign ...I don't know that they'd need to redesign their fleet, though they might want to install some extra point-defense systems for use against fight craft.<br /><br />Leaving aside the fact that the swarm from Beyond was defeated by a Beastie Boys song, the swarm seemed to have some pretty definite inherent difficulties. First is range. How much fuel/air/food/water could those things carry? Enough for a day? Maybe two days? That makes them pretty unsuitable for long range exploration. Even with the Klingons and Romulans, they control large swaths of space. So if they switched to the swarm model, they'd also need to set up a huge network of resupply stations to see to the swarm's needs.<br /><br />And what if you need to attack a planet? The main attack form of the swarm is ramming. That works great against a relatively delicate vehicle like a starship, not so well against an actual planet (which usually has experience multiple asteroid/meteor strikes and is none the worse for wear).<br /><br />That said, the swarm idea is great for local defense, but it can't really project power. For that you need full-sized star ships.johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-88860070461251383792017-07-10T01:17:44.964+01:002017-07-10T01:17:44.964+01:00The fact that this situation ended up naming a tro...The fact that this situation ended up naming a trope<br />http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DroppedABridgeOnHim/LiveActionFilms<br />and not in a good way, tells you everything you need to know.<br /><br />It was the Star Trek version of "jumping the shark" for Happy Days.johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-84605878239359654772017-07-09T12:18:06.790+01:002017-07-09T12:18:06.790+01:00That was one of the worst story decisions of the S...That was one of the worst story decisions of the ST movie series. Kirk should have died as a result of a clear choice to sacrifice himself for the greater good, not simply as a result of bad luck when facing yet another high risk scenario. That's like saying, "Too bad, he finally fumbled his luck roll," when it should have been an inevitable and fateful moment. And having something as bathetic as a bridge falling on him - I'm sure that was because some idiot studio exec thought it would be funny to say, "Bridge on the Captain." Ugh.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-23084646058909512582017-07-09T12:13:55.033+01:002017-07-09T12:13:55.033+01:00I think that's a more interesting take on it, ...I think that's a more interesting take on it, yes. An enemy devised a strategy that Starfleet never envisaged, and in doing so revealed the critical vulnerability of big starships. Unfortunately that explanation would require them to completely redesign the entire fleet, so instead we have to put up with some hand waving and next time everything will be back to normal.DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887893691053633187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-41568181046360680632017-07-09T03:20:19.380+01:002017-07-09T03:20:19.380+01:00My take is that Pike in Darkness was a casualty of...My take is that Pike in Darkness was a casualty of war - war effectively started by Starfleet against Khan and his crew. When Khan attacked, he attacked military targets, albeit using asymmetrical tactics that remind one of terrorism.<br /><br />Given that, the overall flow of the story should have had Kirk seeking revenge against Khan, catching him, learning the real story and recognizing that despite Khan's action, the person most responsible for Pike's death was the militaristic faction led by Marcus. So Khan and Kirk form their alliance that slowly shifts to grudging respect and a kind of friendship/forgiveness - much like what happens when former adversaries come together after a war.<br /><br />I don't know, that story concept seemed to fit the story elements they'd set up in the movie better than what they did, which was to shoehorn the story from Wrath of Khan into a story space where it didn't comfortably fit. johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2141372262111342844.post-70254342154398582762017-07-09T03:08:36.396+01:002017-07-09T03:08:36.396+01:00I watched the whole thing and never caught that. ...I watched the whole thing and never caught that. My take was that the drone ships were built really tough because their main attack method was slamming into other ships. Figure shields are great for repelling energy-based attacks like phasers, disrupters and even torpedoes as well as tiny physical objects like pebbles, small asteroids. For bigger physical stuff there's tractor beams, phasers and get getting the hell out of the way.<br /><br />I just assumed that the enemy knew what he was facing, understood modern design principles and purpose-built an attack type that would exploit the vulnerabilities of those designs. I think I'll stick with this since it makes way more sense than "shield prefix codes."johntfshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005496604068259398noreply@blogger.com