Do not attempt any of the techniques or methods described in this book. They could result in serious injury or death to an untrained user.(More certainly than they would result in injury to the person you're fighting, anyway.)
There's a story behind those drawings. The publishers asked Jamie to sketch them, so he did a few scribbled stick-figures on the back of an envelope, assuming that an artist would redraw them properly for publication. But the art department at Knight Books had no budget for more illustrations - either that or they had already sent the artwork briefs off the Bob Harvey and didn't want to bother him with an extra assignment. So in the end a staff designer traced Jamie's drawings and those were what appeared in print. I remember at the time Jamie waving a copy of the first book, Avenger, and saying, "I can't believe they just printed those crappy drawings I did!"
I'm still hoping the new books will feature diagrams of the kuji-no-in, without which no ninja's mystical powers are effective. As Tetsubo makes clear, I am more interested in the traditional trickster-image of the ninja represented by characters like Nikki Danjo (below, left) than the post-WW2 mythology of a commando in black pyjamas. As Fabled Lands players will know, there are plenty of the former to be found in Lords of the Rising Sun.
Kwon's flail isn't really like the forked lightning kick... Kwon's flail is more like a roundhouse kick. You plant the one foot, pivot on the ball of that foot and swing the other foot around like a flail. Surprising the detail you remember even after more than 20 years. :)
ReplyDeleteI guess their main similarity is in their usefulness in finishing off your nemesis in book 1 (oops... spoiler alert!)
Ah yes, the trickiest kick to get right. In my Shotokan days I used to practice kicking over a sofa back or a tabletop. But if Kwon's Flail is meant to be a roundhouse, that illustration isn't right. Oops.
DeleteI think it might be based on artwork in the book that shows the person who teaches it to you using it on a bad guy. From memory in that one, the victim is less straight on, and more being kicked in the stomach and flying backward (backward compared to the reader, rather than the kicker, so they are going deeper into the page).
DeleteYou're right Tim! Except that technically it's not even a roundhouse but a reverse roundhouse or heel kick. Here's an example.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triple_Reverse_Turning_Kick_Combo_Samuel_Lee.gif
The forked lightning also doesn't look quite right, as it should be two of these done in quick succession, one aimed middle height, the follow up at the head.
Vertical kick (thrust kick/push kick/side kick)[edit source | editbeta]
The vertical kick involves bringing the knee forward and across the chest, then swinging the hip while extending the kicking leg outward, striking with the outside ("sword") edge of the foot. It can deliver a considerable amount of power. This is called a yoko geri keage in karate.
Anyway, hopefully there will be time to tweak the pix. The Teeth of the Tiger is in fact from pro wrestling in the UK in the 70s and 80s, the old time equivalent of WWF modern wrestling stuff and is of course entirely spurious. Everything else is from real martial arts of one sort or another.
That makes a lot of sense. Maybe as a stretch goal, Megara could release the Tora-do Book of Unarmed Combat!
DeleteI'd always wondered about the physics involved in a Teeth of the Tiger throw. I can't imagine Giant Haystacks or Big Daddy trying it out, though.
DeleteI can't imagine it budging Giant Haystacks or Big Daddy, either.
DeleteNo, they wouldn't have tried it, lol! It was actually the lightweight wrestlers who were actually pretty good to watch, as they were fast with well choreographed moves, and less pantomime stuff.
DeleteAh well, there you go... I always thought that *was* a roundhouse kick. I guess I'm not much of a real martial arts buff. :)
DeleteI was a great fan of Way of the Tiger when I was 7 and got all my friends into it. Thanks to second-hand bookstores, 30 years on I now have books 1-5 of the original series by Knight Books, though not in terribly mint condition. I never liked the ending of book 6, so I never bought it; but if there is a book 7, I'll order both from Megara.
ReplyDeleteIn all honesty though, when I first saw the revised illustrations of the "torado kata", something looked amiss... After consulting with the old Knight Books version, I think the original ones made from Jamie's sketches made more sense.
Firstly, there too much use of the "flying belts" in the new illustrations to communicate dynamic movement. I have yet to see any exponent throw a punch and his belt flies forward like streamers in the wind.
Secondly, body positions in the new illustrations just don't look right. In the old versions, it looks more straightforward and accurate; in the new illustrations, the position of the foot seems odd... Take the Forked Lightning Strike kick for example: in the old version, it looks like a double kick using the same leg; as the text describes it in the course of the adventure, the first is somewhat of a feint to lure the defender to lean forward and block a low kick, only to be caught off-guard when the same leg also whips up to the lowered head for a deadly second strike (ergo, forked lightning). The first kick uses the outer edge of the side of the foot, and the follow-up ostensibly the dorsal surface. In the new illustration, (I could be misinterpreting the low resolution image) but the kick looks like it switches legs: first the left, then the right. And the sole of both feet look angled inwards, which will deliver a greatly different damage profile if the toes have a purpose to them in the kick. But this is not described in the text of the adventure.
The Dragon's Tail throw was improved from the original to be consistent with which leg should appear in steps 1 and 2, but even if you can slide, the legs are wrongly positioned to throw anyone in accordance to step 2. This throw is meant to rely on one leg tripping the opponent while the other provides the force to push the opponent off-balance. The illustration should have the ninja's right leg behind the opponent's right foot and not in front of the left foot.
Teeth of the Tiger: Again, foot position. The adventure text describes this as a wrenching throw relying on a single twist and a half-turn of the body. In the new illustration, it looks like a complete turn. In other words, a step 3.
Kwon's Flail: Good lord... Did the illustrator actually read the text describing the fight with Yaemon in Avenger? The target of Kwon's Flail is almost usually the head for any man-sized figure. It isn't a side kick that knocks the opponent backwards. Although the posture is obviously taken from the illustration of the monk Togawa performing the kick on a Rock Hulk, the creature was BIGGER than man-sized... so naturally, the target area will be the chest or neck, depending on the opponent's size (e.g. Mardolh or Asteroth).
The only moves I don't have a complaint about are the Winged Horse kick, Iron Fist punch, Cobra Strike punch, and the Whirlpool throw.
And yes, in case you are wondering, I did try out these moves. Hey, if you're 7-years-old and already learning martial arts, you mean you aren't going to try it???
Don't get me started on the new, coloured illustrations... Jikkyu (demon form), Undead Warlord, Mardolh and Asteroth don't look at all menacing or scary. I will admit that the cover illustrations are a good effort, but the inside illustrations leave me extremely disappointed. Seriously, if they can't capture the same mood and expression, please do a new concept all together. The new ones just look plain WRONG...
If Megara wanted to publish just the text and cover illustration I'd seriously buy them anyway. But these illustrations put me off completely.
As I've said before, I'm not enough of a WOTT expert to comment on the adventures themselves, but I was quite a martial arts buff (well, green belt in Shotokan, anyhow - 30 years ago!) and so I am interested in the discussion of combat techniques. And I was just thinking when I read Jamie's description that Kwon's Flail would be most effective as a kick to the head, so glad to hear that's how it's used in the books.
DeleteFabled Lands Publishing's paperback editions probably will just have the text and covers. Those books will just be black and white, so I don't think the colour illustrations would reproduce very well anyway. But I ought to repeat my earlier caveat: we haven't scheduled the paperback edition yet, so there's no guarantee when they will be available.
PS I do remember doing a roundhouse kick to Mark Smith's head in our college days. Not to connect, of course!
DeleteReally interesting to note the background stories of some of my favourite gamebook authors! My friends and I would discourse the moves after school and we detected the flaw in the body positions for the Dragon's Tail throw. We never attempted the Teeth of the Tiger for two simple reasons: (1) probability of breaking the neck (as mentioned in the adventure text); and (2) it would be more likely that since we weren't that acrobatic, a friend could end up with his face in the other's crotch or butt. (Cue juvenile laughter)
DeleteNow there's an analysis from someone who knows martial arts. That's exactly what an artist needs to be thinking, and I'll try to make sure the information gets passed along. Thank you very much for explaining yourself so well.
ReplyDeleteAs to the art in the remainder: how a Kickstarter project like this works is as a process, not a final goal. You pledge and then you're a part of the journey: your comments shape the final product.
Even before launch, we've already committed to revamping illustrations from fan feedback! Would you happen to follow us on Facebook? Version after version shows up there, and, yes, we're listening to what you say.
Though I'm not much into Facebook thanks to the inane ramblings of my relatives, I will make the effort to monitor this window into my childhood.
DeleteI like the idea that you get a say in the design based on your pledge. Does that mean that people who pledge more will get to vote on things like the art? Or can anyone have input?
DeleteIt's not dependent on making a pledge, Vinnie. If you go over to the WOTT KS page (or, I assume, almost any KS page) you'll see that there has already been a lot of useful feedback taken on board.
DeleteYes, Dave has it right: anyone can join the Facebook page, and of course there's the comment system on Kickstarter. Direct "voting" I hesitate to promise: I'm not the one wrangling the artists (that would be Mikaël), and in any case it's more of a conversation.
DeleteWhich is fun, though I also understand darech76's trepidation about going on Facebook. I appreciate your willingness to brave the wilds.
Oh, technically, there is one way to affect art directly: we have some of those "wishful thinking" pledge levels if people would like to appear in book 7. But that's for a large amount of money and obviously isn't for everyone.