Traditionally the Fourth of July stands for the people standing up to rid themselves of incompetent and backward-looking government. The UK electorate will get the opportunity tomorrow to claim their own share of that. If you are reading this in Britain: vote for who you like just as long as you vote, try not to demonize people who have a different opinion from you*, and don't let me influence you. Well, beyond saying that the choice is pretty much summed up in this Brian Bilston poem.
And my thoughts too are with our neighbours across La Manche, also in the midst of a fraught election. The result there could have far greater consequences than the vote in Britain, given that one of the party leaders openly supports Putin over the EU. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion isn't even close.
Careful, Dave. I hope you haven't offended any 'non vote-ists' out there.
ReplyDeleteI like Brian Bilston's poem. A concern would relate to attention spans. You may have Farage knocking on your door later on to shake your hand. It also made me recollect a competition from my Junior school days. Each group was set 20 tasks to complete, with the fastest group to be declared the winner. Number 20 was 'don't bother completing tasks 1 to 19'.
If Farage turns up at my door I'll take pleasure in slamming it in his face, Andy. Although if he notices the footnote to the post I don't expect he'll bother.
DeleteAs a Yank who does not follow UK politics very closely, I'm curious - what is so bad about Farage?
ReplyDeleteWhere do I start? Well, defending the use of a racial slur by one of his party members, he said, "If you and your mates are going out for a Chinese, what do you say you’re going for?" Personally I say, "Let's go for a Chinese meal." (In fact I'll probably specify Beijing cuisine.) But Farage and his buddies apparently favour the word "chinky" and aren't even ashamed of that.
DeleteThat's one of his milder views. Asked why he didn't object to Germans coming to Britain but kept complaining about other immigrants, he said, "You know the difference." His record on anti-Semitism and anti-feminism is cause for concern at the very least, with complaints about what he calls a "Jewish lobby" and defending some unsavoury remarks about women as "just what men say sometimes". His approach to politics is to treat it as a circus and try to undermine trust in public institutions -- in the West, that is; he admires Putin. He blames NATO and the EU for Putin's invasion of Ukraine. One of his typical dog-whistles: he proposed a ban on people with HIV being allowed into the country.
To put him in an American context, he admires Donald Trump and called Barack Obama "a creature" and "a loathsome individual". So that at least tells you the kind of people he'd suck up to if he were in the US -- some will admire him for that, but people like me (lefty liberals, that is) despise him and I have no doubt the feeling is mutual.
How happy/relieved are you with the election results, Dave?
ReplyDeleteIt was pretty much the result everyone was expecting, John, and I'm very happy to see the back of 14 years of Conservative government. But Britain has a lot of problems that need fixing, so the new government has its work cut out. I would have preferred if the Liberal Democrats had been the official opposition (ie had come second, an outcome for which there was only a 1 in 5 chance) because they are the only major party willing to argue that Britain needs to rejoin the single market. And Reform UK got 4 million votes, which is worrying, though most of them are old and won't be voting in many more elections.
DeleteStill, my current feeling is that Britain is an oasis of calm and sanity in a Western world which seems to be horribly tilting to the extreme right.
Here is the new British prime minister's first press conference. An actual grown-up answering questions straightforwardly and sensibly without a lot of party spin and flannel. We haven't had that for a long time.
DeleteSo if Trump somehow wins over here in the USA, how hard is it to legally immigrate to the UK? BTW, I will be taking my air conditioning units with me because apparently that's not a thing over there...
DeleteIf Trump wins I think Australia or New Zealand might be safer, John. Once Putin rolls into Eastern Europe, he'll have a few thousand nukes pointing at France and Britain. Or possibly only Britain if France elects the pro-Putin party.
DeleteBut if you're set on the UK then it helps to be a skilled worker (I guess they particularly want doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc) or to have an Ancestry visa. It looks to me like the easiest tactic is to set up your own business or church and send yourself here as a representative -- but I must be missing something, surely, as that seems far too easy. Most summers I'd have agreed with you about the air conditioning, but this year I only recently turned the central heating off -- and the cost of running either heating or aircon is getting to be beyond the means of a humble writer anyhow.
I'll probably set up the Church of Azathoth because whiny Tories and Reformist will be too busy hating on Muslims to notice.
DeleteAzathoth might actually come across as more moderate than some of the Reform mob.
DeleteAzathoth may be that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity but at least it's not a Nazi.
DeleteWhile I'm no fan of Nigel Farage, I ought to say that he's certainly no Nazi. But the last time I defended someone against a charge of Nazism I just got a lot of twits calling me a Nazi, so maybe it's not worth the bother.
DeleteI'd agree with you on Farage, Dave. An odious, disingenuous egotist, yes. A Nazi, no. I truly hope that the people who voted for him are misguided rather than racist. Ironically, we have him to thank more than most for turfing out the previous incumbent incompetents. And I say that as someone who is apolitical, so it takes some doing to get me down off my fence! As for Trump. Lord help us.
DeleteMaybe after quitting the EU, Britain should have applied to join the US, Andy. The benefit to America would be a 12% increase in GDP and 66 million new voters who are 62% Democrat (equivalent) and 38% Republican. The benefit to the UK would be the comforting umbrella of US defence in an era when Putin seems determined to creep steadily westwards.
DeleteThe football/soccer terminology will be problematical, Dave, but you may be onto something there.
DeletePlus, guns basically grow on trees here in the USA so you guys could finally have that shoot-out from Hot Fuzz in reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJYTbIkj86w&ab_channel=MidwestUrbanist
DeleteOMG, yes. The guns. Maybe, as a state of the Union, Britain could opt out of the 2nd amendment? After all, we already have a well-regulated militia in the form of the Army, RAF and Royal Navy.
DeleteIf only life imitated art, where having a gun can be a disbenefit. I watched The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live last week and lost count how many times Rick Grimes and co managed to escape being held at gunpoint. It's all in the reflexes.
DeleteI've lost count of the TV dramas where a child or untrained adult escapes from several big burly men by suddenly shoving them and running off before they can recover their balance. And then there was the spy thriller where an ex-SAS guy holds a gun to a scientist's head, but the scientist gets away by turning round very fast and hitting him with his briefcase. I have met ex-SAS guys, and I'm telling you, kids, don't try that in real life.
DeleteFortunately, "chez moi", a silent majority woke up and came to the poll stations. OK, we don't get a majority in the National Assembly, but that's still the best solution after Macron's playing with the fire.
ReplyDeleteWe certainly breathed a sigh of relief this side of La Manche when we heard the result.
DeleteThat Channel 4 item you linked appears to have been a deliberately fraudulent piece of reporting. The man was an actor. Assuming you are now aware of that and the story behind it, are you a bit embarrassed about falling for it? I think you ought to be.
ReplyDeleteIt genuinely does disappoint me when apparently intelligent and thoughtful people (I mean you) are so keen to believe and then propagate false propaganda like this.
Oh, I'd much rather believe Reform UK isn't riddled with racists, but the evidence is just too overwhelming. Andrew Parker says Channel 4 "goaded" him into making xenophobic and homophobic remarks, but most of us thankfully would never be moved to say such things, with or without a journalist's encouragement. Even The Spectator (hardly a left-wing paper) wasn't impressed. And take it from an intelligent and thoughtful person, you can safely disregard any claim made by Isabel Oakeshott.
DeleteAs for "the man was an actor" -- it does seem that Andrew Parker has worked as an actor , but Farage used that to try to befuddle the less intelligent and thoughtful folks into incorrectly assuming that meant he was being paid to act when making those comments. It was just "typical chaps-down-the-pub talk", apparently. Not in my local it's not.
DeleteThanks for the reply, Dave.
ReplyDeleteI strongly believe that the man was 'playing a persona' from the very start. Some sort of Alf Garnett act. It seems clear to me. Why would he do this? In reality he doesn't even talk like that. There is a Youtube video of him entitled: Andrew John Parker "RACIST REFORM CANVASSER" is a paid actor?
And so paid or not, he was a fake - and this means I am less likely to believe a word he says.
And as you say about 'typical chaps down the pub' talk - it absolutely is not. But those words and the talk about being 'goaded' were quotes from the actor himself when he got found out and when he was in a very awkward position.
Whether he was paid or not is of secondary importance to whether he was a real Reform activist, an anti-Reform activist infiltrating the party to smear it, or someone just pretending he was something in order to get on the telly and cause a stir.
It's possible, Adam, but in that case why didn't he just say, "I was being ironic"? Instead he said, "They were off-the-cuff things that everyone says.” And when other Reform UK members were recorded making homophobic comments, Farage said, "They had just watched England play football, they were in the pub, they were drunk." That's all right, then.
DeleteFirst of all, I re-read my initial post and me referring to you as 'APPARENTLY thoughtful and intelligent' comes across as unnecessarily rude and that I was implying that you were neither of those things. That is not the case, I think you are clearly an intelligent man who puts a lot of thought into things. The point I was trying to make was that sometimes even people who follow the news closely are not immune from being misled which is what i think has happened in this case with Channel 4.
ReplyDeleteAs you have seen, among other things, the individual himself describes himself as having had Muslim girlfriends in the past, and yet in the footage is on about 'effing p*kies' and shooting people. He calls Islam a 'disgusting cult' on film and yet says afterwards, (when defending himself) 'I have a lot of Pakistani friends” and “Muslim friends". Weird? He is from Bishop's Stortford, not Clacton, what was he doing there? Did ANYONE know who he was beforehand? ANY of the real Reform members? I just think he's not to be trusted in what he's saying. Carried away with his Alf Garnett persona, he's said those things and now he is shi**ing himself because he is on the news, someone is going to recognise him on the street, and his phone hasn't stopped ringing from all the people wanting a comment. I don't know what the Channel 4 journalists thought of him. I imagine they were delighted at getting this sort of footage so close to the election because it fits their narrative. I think that is why the item was so well received by people opposed to Reform too, it nicely fits their idea of who and what their political opponents are. Those people include the leaders of the main political parties who were quick to comment on it.
And as for people unfairly 'taking potshots' at gay people, I don't like that either.
I didn't think you were being sarcastic, Adam, so no need to apologize. And I agree we should always doubt what we see. Just the other day I saw someone posting about Donald Trump having supposedly said, back in 1997: ""If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I'd bet my numbers would be terrific."
DeleteI was sceptical and checked and it's fake news. I'm no fan of Trump and he's said plenty of genuinely bad things, but it serves nobody to lie about him. Likewise Reform UK -- plenty of racists and homophobes, also no doubt plenty of members who don't regard themselves as racist, they just disapprove of immigrants. I have a nationalist friend who, on learning I would be attending the wedding of two male friends, said darkly, "Dave, I wouldn't have anything to do with that sort of thing if I were you." Yet he would robustly deny the charge that he's homophobic. Likewise we're all familiar with the "I'm not racist but..." arguments.
Still, we are talking here about Andrew Parker and the question is whether he was making his statements ironically or as genuine expression of what he thinks. I found this analysis but a definite answer remains elusive. I'd be inclined to say you're right and he was putting on a persona, or half doing so at least, except that Nigel Farage instantly claimed it was all a ploy by Channel 4. He couldn't know that and it's a good rule of thumb to assume the truth is the opposite of what Farage says. That said, I admit that when Farage chanted Hitler Youth songs at his public school he probably just thought he was being wittily ironic, so I can't say with certainty that even he is racist or fascist. Actual racists or fascists these days are wise to using dog-whistles, though, so it's always worth digging down to what they really mean.
Anyway, the bottom line is that while we may never know the answer to the specific question regarding Andrew Parker, I appreciate and fully agree with your point about always interrogating assumptions. Eagle-eyed readers will notice that Snopes is one of the sites recommended in the sidebar. Arguments against (eg) racism are only weakened if we eagerly share "evidence" that turns out to be fake.
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