Gamebook store

Friday, 15 January 2021

Pointing the finger


British literary critics of the 19th century had the notion of the "Young Lady Standard", which was a kind of family-friendly U-rating for novels that would not offend the sensibilities of a Victorian girl. Because of this, British literature often shied away from the sort of forthright depiction of life you find in French or Russian novels of the time. There was a feeling on the Continent that literature was an art form and had a right, indeed a responsibility, to mirror life warts and all. In Britain literature was the forerunner of early-evening television.

Even so, authors like Jane Austen were not the twee and cosy yarn-spinners that many suppose. Lady Susan Vernon is an amoral, manipulative adventuress who deserves a place in the ranks of dark antiheroes alongside Vic Mackey and Walter White; Catherine Morland runs afoul of predatory sexual vindictiveness; Lizzie Bennet takes on a real-life dragon for very high stakes; Becky Sharp is willing to betray even those who love her just to squirrel away some cash. Nonetheless, though depths of human depravity are certainly there to be inferred in 19th century British literature, those are all pre-watershed conflicts. None of them is described with the uncompromising raw honesty and occasional breathtaking brutality of authors like Balzac or Chekhov.

Dickens wrote stories to stir your emotions, but he and his readers knew they were parlour entertainment, to be read by the whole family -- a "safe space" in entertainment. A Victorian paterfamilias who opened a novel to be confronted with the likes of Madame Bovary might well have stormed back to the bookshop and thrown it through the window.

I think something similar is behind the uproar we sometimes see nowadays over "unsuitable" content in roleplaying games. There are some people who play games the way those Victorian families read novels; there are others who expect games with no holds barred. This has led to the concept of the "x-card" -- sadly nothing to do with homo superior, but a mechanism to interrupt games whose scenes or subject matter a player is unhappy with. To quote from the blog I linked to there:
"The x-card is used to signal that a boundary has been crossed or that a player is not OK with the content. The game stops immediately, and discussion shifts to the reason why the card was used."
For me that's as absurd as calling a halt to a disturbing play or movie. If you don't like what you're seeing, don't tell me about it; there's the exit. But there's a category disconnect here. I regard roleplaying games as art, no different from literature, theatre, cinema, poetry, and painting. The people who advocate x-cards want their games to be morally uplifting and to avoid upsetting anybody, just like those family novels for the Victorian fireside. We have different expectations.

I have a player who doesn't like horror scenarios. If we're going to be playing a horror campaign, that's OK; she sits it out. Sometimes there's a grey area. A scenario may not be overtly intended as horror, in the sense of belonging to the horror genre, but horrific things happen. There have been a few times when my players have shocked me to the core with some of the things they're willing to do. And that's fine. It's why I play, in fact, to see those things that emerge unexpectedly from characterization -- sometimes beautiful, sometimes very nasty. It's the same when writing characters. You ask yourself how far they will go, what lines won't they cross, and the answer is often revelatory.

What do you do if you come up with something you know will be shocking, whether as a player or a referee? If I thought my players couldn't handle it then I'd keep it to use in a story, perhaps. But really, if my players were like that then we'd soon part company. They and I know we're not setting any limits.

Taking the blog post I cited again, one of that player's boundaries is "I don't want any romance involving my character." But it's really hard to plan that kind of thing in advance, especially in the improv style of play that gives the best games. When refereeing, I wouldn't have an NPC profess love for a PC if I didn't think the player was capable of running with it. (I'm talking about their acting ability and imagination, of course.) What if one player-character falls in love with another? I'd much rather they both played it. Unrequited love is one option there, and it could develop in interesting directions as we know from countless TV shows and novels. It would be pretty disappointing if a player just said, "I don't want to roleplay that." In that case play your blocking. Reject them, spurn their advances in-character. Don't tell everyone about it.

But what about games in a public forum? Twenty years ago I went along to a convention to sign Fabled Lands books but soon got roped into a series of fascinating mini-RPG scenarios run by the guys behind West Point Extra Planetary Academy. Each game had a different setting and was built as a moral quandary to be played out in twenty minutes. They could hardly have started by saying, "This scenario deals with issues X, Y and Z." It's the trigger warning problem. If you're trying to capture a genuine sense of surprise in the game, you can't give too much away upfront. (Not to mention that the evidence indicates that trigger warnings are of no use in any case to the genuinely traumatized.)

Why have these debates crept into games of late? I think partly because roleplaying is becoming -- well, not mass market entertainment, not by any stretch, but certainly it has opened up beyond the hardcore gaming demographic of the early days. Aficionados take a sophisticated approach to their hobby. The casual fan tends to have a less mature outlook.


Also, American culture has always had a much more censorious streak than European. The idea of shutting down a discussion because it offends somebody's moral code is perhaps natural if your country was founded by Puritans. And because of social media, the Overton window has shifted away from liberalism towards moralism. Hence gripes like this, that maybe do make sense over in the US (American friends, feel free to chip in) but strike most Europeans as potty.

And because most roleplaying derives from genre fiction, and genre sensibilities tend to be a little less grown-up than proper literature, there's a tendency to expect roleplaying games to stick to the soft-soap forms of conflict you get in traditional SF and fantasy. Witness the outcries over Game of Thrones when the writers stepped outside genre norms -- even though that was pretty much the entire thesis of the show from day one.


Anyway, enough theorizing. What do we do about it? Well, surely few gamers want to sit around listening while one player explains their reasons for halting the game. The next stop on that line is struggle sessions, which nobody will enjoy. But those people's sense of offence seems genuinely to overwhelm them, and there's no point in subjecting anybody to an experience they disapprove of. So we're going to need better ways to signal which kind of roleplayer you are. High literary with anything goes, or pulp with puritan boundaries? As long as everyone around the table knows what they're letting themselves in for, I'm sure we can all keep on gaming without needing to call the thought police.

33 comments:

  1. Roleplaying is all about the players' choice. Avoid railroading and, of course, desperate situations from the beginning. This is true for both horrific and non-horrific stories. The horrific situation must come from the player's action. The last session I ever played as a Gamemaster was your scenario Kervala's Tower (DW2). The priest had felt there was something evil and dangerous in the pentacle on the ground. However, he still decided to break it. His soul was captured by a demon, and his companions turned crazy and were massacred by Lvl1 Skeletons, though they could have just fled out of that tower....
    We can lay out things in another way : imagine players want, from the beginning, to interpret evil characters. They may have fun at the beginning, killing masses of people, but this game shall become soon boring. My players had said once, in Warhammer Fantasy, they would like to play as Skavens (evil Ratmen). At first sight, this looked like a good idea (Skavens are well described in WF) but I finally gave up that option since there would be little fun in playing creatures driven by their nasty instincts.
    What makes the core of roleplaying is the choice between good and evil, as in real life (ex: Brexit vs Remain, etc....) and that's why RgP settings are often dark and gritty (what critics don't understand). "Where there's a monster, there shall be an hero", if that fantasy world were already perfect, there would be little to do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is why I am scornful of D&D's alignment concept. The architects (or should I say enablers?) of la Terreur, for example, did not go about thinking, "I am Lawful Evil so must do X." On the contrary, Robespierre was not being insincere when he said, "God created men to help each other, to love each other mutually, and to attain to happiness by the way of virtue."

      Or to take a more recent example, I heard a Republican politician in the US declaring, "We love America, but the Democrats hate it." And once you believe that, and are able to paint those who disagree with you as blackguards and so diminish your empathy for them as fellow human beings, it's possible to commit terrible acts regardless of professed "alignment".

      Delete
  2. "But those people's sense of offence seems genuinely to overwhelm them..."

    This hits the nail on the head IMHO. Although we can go back & forth about the whys and wherefores of the mentally & emotionally infirm 21st century, what I fervently want to avoid is actually running into this situation, in person, at a game with anyone (especially people I don't know all that well).

    I was going to run my first convention game last year. The best I could think of was to put a generalized "content and style" warning on the front of my game, and hope people paid attention. At very least nobody can come crying about being blindsided in the middle of the session and derailing everything.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A trigger warning is all you can do, I think. If anybody hears that, joins in, and subsequently whips up a fuss about something in the game then it's on them, not you. They just decided to be a dick.

      I just realized yesterday that I'm going to have to put a trigger warning on my Vulcanverse gamebook. I'm tempted to phrase it as: "Bad things happen and people are very, very naughty."

      Delete
    2. Please please put that warning! It’s almost Pythonesque in it’s phrasing. Perhaps if I could be so bold as to suggest an amendment? “Bad things sometimes happen, even when we’re pretending and making stuff up. People might behave like Brian and be very very naughty boys or girls or whatever...But just like the internet it’s not really real so really maybe don’t worry about it. Really...” ;-) okay so maybe disclaimers are harder than they look... :-)

      Delete
    3. I'm reminded of Grim's advice about how to make "safe spaces" for roleplaying: "Don't walk around barefoot if there are D4s on the floor."

      Delete
    4. Refer your earlier comment and maybe the disclaimer/ warning simply needs to be “Don’t be a dick!” And that cuts both ways for the potential offender and the offended... or if we reframe it as a positive perhaps the apparently asinine “Be excellent to each other, dude!” has some merit?

      Delete
    5. That's a sentiment I can get behind 100%. Party on, my most excellent friend!

      (Which reminds me... has anyone seen Face The Music yet? Is it Excellent or is it Bogus?)

      Delete
    6. Notice I chime in at the important part of the discussion.
      Face The Music is not bogus, by any means. It raises a smile, simply because Bill & Ted are good-natured, and we need good-natured characters in movies.
      But don't watch it expecting anything other than good-natured amusement. I mean, if the idea of Bill & Ted having daughters called Bill & Ted who are just like they are doesn't appeal, avoid it like the plague (actually I think the daughters are underused).

      On trigger warnings, by the way, I was reading only yesterday something that mentioned that research suggested trigger warnings 'don't work'. It's late, and I'm afraid weissbier is preventing me from following up that specific reference for you.

      Delete
    7. Was it this? https://osf.io/axn6z/

      One of the problems with trigger warnings is that they could act as spoilers. Depends how detailed they are, of course. So my preference is simply to say the material is either (a) completely anodyne or (b) might contain something shocking. If somebody feels fragile they can avoid (b) but the warning doesn't give the game away to those who do read, watch or play it.

      That said, no warning could count as a spoiler for the kinds of roleplaying session I like because we don't know in advance what might happen. Such games are best just avoided by anyone who has phobias about any kind of content. (Don't ask me how those people manage to read novels.)

      More importantly, I'd put Bill & Ted Excellent Adventure at 10 and Bogus Journey at maybe 7. Really BJ only deserves a 5, but there's a +2 for having Bill & Ted themselves in it. So Face the Music would have to be quite terrible before I'd show it the X-card, simply because I like hanging out with those fellows.

      Delete
    8. I think what I found was a reference to that study.

      And Face The Music is definitely an 'enjoy hanging out with Bill & Ted' experience. Like Bogus Journey, it doesn't really have any of those classic moments from the first movie (I was telling my son about 'Iron Maiden -- Excellent!' only last night). Personally I liked the fact that it did address a certain darkness, without acceding to the temptation to become at all 'edgy.'

      Delete
    9. I should be able to get it next week (the DVD release) so I'll let you know how it goes down chez Morris.

      Delete
  3. Addressing at least part of your point, reading a book, watching a play/movie, looking at a painting are all essentially solitary activities. You close the book, avoid the painting, walk out of the play. Roleplaying is a group activity. Something done with your peers. So there's potential peer pressure at play there. Power dynamics involved. Walking out of play is one thing. Walking out on your friends/co-workers/etc could be something very different. So the idea of some built-in mechanism to let people say "Hey, this is getting to me, can we not go here" seems like a useful thing.

    And I say that as somebody who voted for George W. Bush in the 2000 POTUS election specifically because I didn't want Tipper Gore and her PG kids/Satanic Panic BS anywhere near the levers of executive power.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd say roleplayers are more like the actors in a play than the audience. And if somebody decides in advance that there are some plays they wouldn't be willing to perform because of the topics they cover, then actor is clearly the wrong job for them.

      Seeing it as a social activity, perhaps we could take the analogy of a dinner party. A discussion starts. One of the guests is uncomfortable because they don't think we should discuss this topic. They can say, "Hey, I don't like this, would you all please stop discussing it and talk about something else?" Or they can take the host to one side and say that they don't want to hear any discussion of this topic and so they are going to quietly withdraw from the table till it's over. Or they could join in and make a case for why the topic should be off-limits. Or they could just sit there and say nothing till the discussion moves on. The first won't get invited back, the second might because at least they have manners, and the third and fourth are behaving like grown-ups.

      Regarding elections, given how differently the world would have turned out if Al Gore had won in 2000, I'm going to recommend voting for the candidate in future, not the opinions of the candidate's wife or husband!

      Delete
    2. Btw -- I say that, but the world might have gone in a different but equally bad direction with Gore as president. So until we have the flowchart for the universal gamebook we won't know if there was any rght choice to be made there :-)

      Delete
    3. Except that an RPG is still different than a dinner party. If I'm with you, Paul and Jamie at dinner and Jamie holds forth on the idea that Donald Trump is the bestest most awesome US POTUS in the history of forever, I can just... not say anything and hope he shuts up and moves on.

      However, RPGs are about participation. If we're playing the WoD knockoff game TRumpist: The Devotioning, then I, as my character have to hold forth on why Trump is the bestest ever because that's the point of the game.

      Sure, the Trump game is ridiculous but it's not the worst example. Suppose the party is confronted by a door they have to open to move forward and the only way to open that is by performing (and describing in detail) various sexual acts?

      Because that's a thing parties have to do in Beneath: The Inverted Church.

      https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/233278/Beneath-the-Complete-Campaign--Revised-Edition

      The above is the link to the Drivethrurpg page for it, but please don't give these people your money.

      Delete
    4. I'll try anything once -- but seeing as there's limited time and I can't try everything, I reckon I can safely give that a miss.

      If I'm playing an RPG I want no holds barred, and I'd hate it if another player declared something off-limits, but as I said in the post I don't want anyone to be uncomfortable. So my solution is the same as HDA's comment above -- just to say at the start, "This is a game where we can't predict what might happen, so if there's anything that makes you so anxious you can't cope then don't join in." Similarly if somebody tells me they're going to play using X-cards, I'd probably give their game a miss. That way everybody is happy, no one is uncomfortable.

      Delete
  4. I have received a comment from Roger Bell_West but Blogger still won't allow him to post here, so I have his permission to quote it here:

    Well, we're just going to disagree on this one. I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, just lay out my viewpoints in case there's anything you find useful.

    “The ‘discussion of why the card was used’ isn't part of the original approach as I met it, and I think works against it to some extent: the point of the x-card in my understanding is that a player who is already feeling very unhappy but is perhaps also feeling social pressure to stay in the game and not ‘ruin it for everybody’ has a simple physical thing they can do to say ‘no, no, stop, really not happy here’. They don't have to interrupt someone, they don't have to stand up and walk away from the table while someone's talking, they don't have to explain why they're unhappy, so the activation energy needed to head off a session that they are actively not enjoying is lower than it would otherwise be. (Which is why ‘there's the exit’ doesn't quite work, for me – this is a social and interactive situation, not one of passive consumption. It's more like someone choosing to leave the pub because they don't like the way the conversation's gone… which happens, but not often.)

    “They raise the card, then we stop talking. Then they have time to _think_ rather than suffering the constant blows of a thing that disturbs them.

    “At that point I feel I as GM have a decision to make: is this element key to the game, so that I have to do without that player, or can I improvise round it without significantly impairing the rest of the plot? I don't feel that either option does violence to my art; it was already a cooperative endeavour.

    “That's it, and it doesn't seem to me like a huge change or burden. I assume you wouldn't argue that if a player interrupted you to say ‘look, I'm very uncomfortable with this particular sort of body horror, do you mind if I leave’ you'd insist that they stay!

    “Basically I don't believe in the threat of malicious players who will use this to join games then bring them to a halt and ruin other people's fun. (Or ditto over-sensitive but not malicious, because they'll quickly learn not to join most games.) I most definitely do believe, because I've met them, in GMs and players who will react to a female player at the table by talking endlessly about rape. They're still out there even now.

    “I haven't used x-cards in games with regular groups for two main reasons:

    “- I feel I know the players well enough that I have a reasonable idea what would squick them and what would just provide a pleasant _frisson_.

    “- I feel the players know me well enough that they wouldn't feel hesitant in telling me about something they didn't get on with. They know I won't be angry at them.

    “but if a player asked for it I'd be entirely happy to do it. (And if I asked for it and a GM refused, I'd feel a bit edgy about that GM.) As you suggest, sometimes players just don't want to play in a particular game, and that's fair enough. I certainly plan to include an x-card in my GMing kit once I can run games at conventions again."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And continuing Roger's comment (because Blogger *also* has a character limit!) he responding to my remark beginning with 'But there's a category disconnect...' thusly:

      “I recognise that I don't know every detail about my player's lives and what will traumatise them, particularly when I'm playing with strangers, and I would rather a player be able to make a gesture to say ‘suddenly don't want to play this’ rather than sit there feeling unable to interrupt.

      “Thinking of the West Point example, I'd say up front that this is going to be a game about moral decisions, and think that would probably be enough.

      “Broadly, I don't see the x-card as a licence to say ‘you can't run this game’; I see it as a low-energy way to say ‘I'm really unhappy now, please stop at least for long enough to let me leave’.

      “All that said, I do agree that some idea of what players are in for is a good idea. Some GMs like to use film ratings on the basis that most players know what they're dealing with (and they're a fairly good match in that many games, like many films, deal with vastly more violence than they do sex).”

      Delete
    2. Thanks, Roger. On the whole I think we have different experiences, as I haven’t run convention games for decades (nobody really did public trauma back in the ‘90s) and I’m pretty familiar with my regular players’ tastes and standards. They are in fact more likely to shock me than vice versa. A case in point: the player who objected to me having a WW1(ish) soldier with a nickname based on a prohibited weapon (6 Nov 2020 post) has twice murdered NPCs in my campaigns in a particularly horrible way. The difference is, I welcome scenes that shock me and upset my moral code, and I guess that player doesn’t.

      But certainly nobody wants any player to be uncomfortable at the table. The only question is whether we filter the players at the start, so that the game can run uninterrupted, or remove elements as and when they crop up and a player objects. I’d rather the former because a player who held up an X card would have to at least explain what exactly they were objecting to, in order that I would know what to remove, and that’s going to kill immersion as surely as pausing a movie to talk about what we’re looking at on screen.

      Hence I’m in accord with HDA’s comment above, in that I suspect a lot of people’s sensitivity is socially conditioned but there’s no point in arguing with them about it. I dropped the Yellow King war campaign and, if I were running anything at a convention nowadays, I’d start by saying that I couldn’t anticipate what was going to happen but there would be the possibility of violence, sex, horror or whatever and that if they might find themselves unable to deal with anything it would be better not to join in. The X certificate obviates the need for the X card.

      I find that these days I’m much more a sort of PG-carder. I want to raise my card and ask, “Can’t we Marilyn Manson this shit?” The games I’m in seem increasingly to veer away from real surprises in order to water it all down into a sort of jolly Boy’s Own team adventure. I find myself in save-the-world games where we really are expected to save the world, rather than confront the reality that it can’t be saved. I want conflict (without it there’s no story) but other players are anxious to stop the game and say, “We’re not really arguing, are we? It’s all in character?” Now, I *want* to face situations that shock me out of my comfort zone, the way Chekhov or Pinter or Mantel can, and instead I find myself reluctantly joining in a pre-watershed semi-sitcom. Maybe with the triple-whammy of Brexit, Trump and Covid everybody is just looking for escapism? It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve found myself completely out of phase with prevailing trends 😊

      Delete
    3. In Roger's earlier remarks I missed off the quotation marks at the start. So it was Roger who said: "Well, we're just going to disagree on this one. I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, just lay out my viewpoints in case there's anything you find useful."

      OK, that cleared up he adds:

      "As far as saving the world goes… well, it's pleasant to think that one _can_. I think it's a more interesting drama if the PCs either succeed or fail through their own actions than if they succeed or fail because it's in the script. (And I think a good player is one who can say, as Frodo, 'yeah, I know dropping the ring is the right thing to do, but I genuinely believe I can do a lot of good with it'.)"

      Delete
    4. This could be why I don't read much fantasy. How can you stop the end of the world, any more than you can prevent the inevitability of death? Gilgamesh learns that lesson the hard way, and achieves a kind of consolation prize. But the triumphs of genre fantasy feel too fake and mawkishly cosy to me. But then, I'd rather drop-kick the hobbits into Mount Doom myself.

      This does make me think that very few people are going to get on with Jewelspider. It's out of the fashion of the times, but I'm not going to offer any way for characters to change the world. They might achieve something that can be called a success -- we did in our own Legend campaign, simply by raging against the dying of the light. Hopeless defiance is a more interesting kind of victory, but not one I see in genre fiction much.

      Delete
    5. Roger replies -- and I'm going to get the quote marks right this time:

      "If the players go into the campaign _knowing_ that at best they're holding off the darkness for a few more years, or just helping to make a good place in which people can wait for the end... well, that's classic _Call of Cthulhu_, isn't it? But then you do still get that small win; the PC knows that they gave up their health and sanity _and got a gain out of it for other people as well as themselves_, even if they didn't make all the Great Old Ones leave Earth. The end of the campaign can be "this particular threat is dealt with", just as the end of a romance story is "they're going to live together": it doesn't mean that everything is going to be perfect forevermore, but as a victory for those people it's still hugely significant. I'd be happy with that, but not with a scenario that didn't even offer small victories.

      "(I remember the decision one had to make at the end of Blood Sword #5.)"

      Delete
    6. I suppose a lot depends on the expectations of the players. Take a premise like, “Most people think the world will end in the year 1000. There are plagues, prophecies, omens, religious schisms. You meet a priest who says if you bring back a holy relic the world can be saved.” In Blood Sword or D&D that might be on the level – bring back the relic and the world at least gets a reprieve. What I’m aiming for in Jewelspider is the priest’s pitch is exactly as barmy as it sounds, but the characters might very well do some things that will make some lives better on their travels. There’s no save-the-world button, not even a big bearded guy to give them a pat on the head at the end, but the way they conduct themselves in the midst of all this chaos and violence might be its own reward – or private damnation.

      In our current campaign (not run by me) the premise seems to be that we have to save the world, and it’s all based around various philosophical, political or religious positions that I find it hard to imagine my character (an illiterate mercenary) would understand or care about. But then in one session we came across some kids who had been kidnapped after joining a so-called children’s crusade. The referee intended it, I think, just to underline how dastardly our enemies were, but I took it that rescuing the children was the whole point. That’s something this particular illiterate mercenary could relate to; that was his victory. Perhaps the others will go on and do their cosmic heroism, but for me that’s all a bit abstract and silly compared to saving one or two lives.

      I realize I’ve been here before
      (http://fabledlands.blogspot.com/2013/06/save-world-i-want-to-get-off.html )
      and no doubt will be again...

      Of course, it’s not up to me how players will use Jewelspider, and indeed I’ve seen a lot of DW campaigns where the players do the quest and the world is saved. If the players want a superheroes type campaign then it’s quite right they should get it. I have to pick a “reality setting” when writing campaign notes for the Jewelspider book (which will be a lot like your summary of the CoC ethos) but at the same time I’ll be saying that referees and players should feel free to ignore it. As I’m sure they will anyway, and quite right too!

      Delete
    7. It is one of the notable things about the adventures in the Dragon Warriors books, is that they are more about dealing with a small scale problem (personal enrichment, rescuing a friend, foiling an assassination plot against a baron). Maybe Prince of Darkness strays into Saving the World territory, though even there it seems more like Saving Glissom.

      It's one of the things I like about games like Beyond the Wall: at most you save *your* world - your village, your circle of friends, yourself - rather than being the Chosen One.

      I suppose it was what made A Song of Ice and Fire so refreshing when it first came out - there was no saving the world, just saving your own neck was hard enough. Though having said that, I guess Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser didn't really do world saving quests, did they? Especially in the early stories.

      Delete
    8. It's been a while since I read the Conan stories, but I don't think he typically saves the world either. And Elric is just as likely to doom it as otherwise.

      I gather that in the TV Game of Thrones the Night King is defeated by a trick in knife combat. Gotta hope that GRRM comes up with something better than that. Winter stands for Death -- a victory would be that some are spared for now, that's all.

      Delete
    9. Whenever I think of the Shadow of the Demon Lord RPG, it puts me in mind of GRRM's The Dying of the Light. On a dying world, all you can do is postpone the inevitable as long as possible.

      But I suppose that's life in a nutshell!

      Delete
    10. Yes indeed! For my money, genre fantasy is good when it shows us how to deal with the inevitable. When it pretends that the inevitable can be miraculously avoided then it's really just for kids.

      Delete
  5. Perhaps everyone thinks the world is ending and the PCs think they have to save the world and think they succeed or believe they’ve failed but ultimately the universe continues on indifferent to the impotent flailing of men and monsters? Gee it’s a bit depressing but perhaps strangely comforting at the same time? Maybe there really is no meaning but what we construct ourselves? All a bit deep for a rainy Monday night in Oz... :-)

    ReplyDelete
  6. "Ultimately the universe continues on indifferent to the impotent flailing of men and monsters."

    Nigel, I think you've nailed the perfect logline for Legend there!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Speaking of all things in the tone of your vision of Legend I happened to watch the 2010 movie Black Death with Sean Bean, Eddie Redmayne and Carice van Houton. Without wanting to give away any spoilers it had a tone and ending very much along those lines. Apart from some clunky exposition (poor script writing) at the start it was overall a very good window onto something that feels a lot like the grimmer side of Legend to me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know it well. In fact, I've often described it as the perfect Legend movie -- on the grimmer side of the castle wall, admittedly.

      Delete
  8. Jim Desborough has pointed out that it makes more sense to ask if players are fine with anything goes -- the "M-card" solution. That way you avoid an risk of breaking the flow of the game when somebody objects.

    https://moordereht.com/2021/07/23/welcome-to-the-red-room-james-desborough/

    I argued something similar about comics and fiction in general here:
    https://mirabilis-yearofwonders.blogspot.com/2017/07/how-to-deal-with-trigger-warnings.html

    ReplyDelete